Nick QQQ 2:10 Mon Nov 13
Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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We've conceded closed to 2 goals per game so far this season, compared to 1.4 last season, when let's face it we were horrible in the league.
Moyes will tell you it's because we are adopting a more open attacking style of play, which is absolute nonsense.
So why are we conceding so many? A few of my own views:-
- We allow too many balls into the box. Both Coufal and Emerson do not stop the supply.
- Our CBs have been poor (outside of straight high balls into the box). Aguerd's positing and mistakes have cost us and Zouma's leg's look gone. That goal yesterday when he literally gave up was a good example.
- We are "forcing in" a midfield 3 of Soucek, JWP and Alvarez. No pace between the 3 of them and they seem to too close together often getting in eachothers way.
- Paqueta loses the ball a lot and when played out of position on the left gives Emerson little to no cover.
- We play too direct and force pressure back on us.
Regardless of why though, it's a big problem that needs fixing. We can't keep conceding so many goals and something needs to give. Any other thoughts?
Also not sure Zouma is working as captain. We lack a leader on the pitch.
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
Billy Blagg
4:25 Tue Nov 21
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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Twofold for me We can't rotate like we did last season with Dawson. Also - and nobody wants to say it - we miss Rice. Not much we can do about losing a £100m player but we desperately need centre-backs although it's worth considering a decent striker will give opposition something else to think about. It's often forgotten that if you're not pushing forward effectively then the defence comes under more pressure.
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Queens Fish Bar
10:52 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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Too much wearing of Ugs off the pitch in leisure time?
http://westhamonline.net/forum_flat.php?10150220||1||
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Vexed
9:07 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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Yeah he won the cup we were favourites to win and had spent a clear 200m more than everyone else. What a genius. It's safe to say almost any manager could have negotiated their way through the games against Danish postmen and Belgian fucking plumbers.
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BRANDED
8:41 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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And, wins European cups
We know what we are, we know what we are
Campions of Europe, we know what we are
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Vexed
8:07 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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Moyes has invented a new style of football that is negative, gutless, plays everyone behind the ball yet somehow still concedes loads of goals while barely leaving our own half and being absolutely dogshit to watch. What a truly hopeless cunt he is.
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,
7:03 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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Best to judge a team over a complete season but whilst our goals against rate per game is worse than our EPL career rate by the same token our goals for rate per game is higher, our win percentage is higher and we currently have a goal difference of just minus one.
The fair thing with stats is if we are going to point out a negative trend then so too should we point out the positives.
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nerd
6:13 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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Craig Dawson
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threesixty
5:55 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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Lee
stats can hide a lot
a .1 change in average goals conceded took us from 7th to 14th!
Where as the change from 20/21 to 21/22 of .1 took us from 6th to 7th.
So stats are a bit crap without context.
The reason why goals conceded matter for us is that "Moyesball" is designed to counter attack teams. So each goal against, and when it happens directly effects our whole strategy.
We let the other teams have the ball and hope we counter, but if they score late (Everton) it's 3 points gone. If they score early, we have time to completely change strategy and go for it so where more likely to have an open scoring game.
But as someone else has pointed out. For a man who is so defensive, was a defender etc.. he lets in a remarkable amount of goals.
Of all positions on the pitch, you dont really need world class players to get a great defence. You can coach that and work on training to make you better defensively. So you do wonder what is it that they do in training that makes this team leak goals so much?
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Lee Trundle
5:37 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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Using your boring STAT model, comma.
Average conceded per game
20/21 - 1.2 goals
21/22 - 1.3 goals
22/23 - 1.4 goals
23/24 - 1.8 goals
Do you not think something's "changing" there comma? Something appears to be getting worse over the course of time. Did you want a clue?
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,
5:32 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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Looking at the WHU EPL stats we have over the years conceded around 1.5 goals per game whilst scoring during that time an average of 1.25 per game.
In essence not much is changing. It is worth noting that we have achieved a positive goal difference only three times in the EPL, Moyes doing it in consecutive years and Bilic just the once.
Fact is we are reasonable easy to score against most seasons and this one is no exception.
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nerd
5:22 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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Yet we've scored 21 which is not to bad either . 4 at villa and 3 at Brentford is the real reason we are so high it will come down zouma ,emerson ,alvarez , missed a game each . Now we will get back into shape defensively with a bit of stability.
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Westside
4:09 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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Have we ever had a great defence under Moyes?
It would seem not
In 2020/21, we kept a clean sheet in 11 of our league games and conceded 47 and worse since (8 and 9 clean sheets, 51 and 55 goals conceded).
This one of my main gripes with Moyes. His natural default is to defensive mode, but he doesn't actually seem that good at playing that way. I prefer trying to outscore the opposition, which is happening this season, but made harder by not signing a striker, to play the Moyes way. My other big criticism of Moyes.
One of our best seasons (maybe the best?) for clean sheets in the Premier League is 16, under Harry in 98/99, Let in 53 goals
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Side of Ham
2:33 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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Yep, it's definitely the imagination....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY4cVhXxW64
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threesixty
1:29 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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Have we ever had a great defence under Moyes? Is it just an illusion?
Even in his first successful season and a half with us it felt that we just scored more goals rather than stopped shipping them.
There was always a mistake a game in every defender we had. That’s why we’ve always been looking for upgrades on Diop or Fredrick’s etc. but in general we just had more of a goal threat before.
Not getting a striker to replace Antonio is just putting the spotlight on an already leaky defensive setup that’s been there for ages.
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Takashi Miike
12:05 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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love declan, but we still lost twenty league games last year with him. It's the system/manager that's the problem
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,
11:55 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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We do not defend very well as a team, protecting our goal is not just a back four thing and it is clear that we are missing the effective patrolling that Rice provided.
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BillyJenningsBoots
12:56 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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The problem is that we are constantly chopping and changing the defensive line ups Including the midfield..
There's no understanding between them yet Moyes needs to stick to a system and the backbone of the team needs to be played...
Mavropanos and Aguerd need to be the 2 starters in the middle of defence with Alvarez in front with JWP and Paqueta in the middle...
Bowen Kudus and Antonio up front
Moyes is gutless and reactionary so he will stick to having Soucek in so will leave Antonio out to fit Soucek in... that may work as long aswell as long as Souceks goal run continues and doesn't push Paqueta out wide.
Problem is Soucek Paqueta and JWP all play in the same space and leave the fullbacks exposed... the lack of pace means cover is too slow..
But that is the legacy of Moyes's transfer policy...
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Any Old Iron
12:34 Thu Nov 16
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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Leroys, I never thought I’d be thinking that because I was 100% against Maguire, but watching the game at the weekend your sentiment is exacty what popped into my head.
Our CB’s really are that bad.
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Side of Ham
3:43 Wed Nov 15
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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….and you’ve got a big CHOMP Nick….hahaha!
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BRANDED
3:29 Wed Nov 15
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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We've won 5 and lost 5
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Side of Ham
2:29 Wed Nov 15
Re: Most goals conceded outside of the bottom 4 - why?
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Hahaha! Very good Nick QQQ…but it is only Braindead you’ve mugged off…. :-)
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